[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[pelya]

I'm not a real software developer, but I think that a "RC" should be as similar as possible to the final version: in an ideal condition, the only change between the RC and the real release would be removing the "RC" references... isn't it?

I'm real software developer, and we generalpy don't have any idea how to handle version numbers.
Everyone just uses what is more comfortable, whichever version naming scheme sticks becomes an official.
Neon_Knight, if you think you can rename everything before release without causing bugs, let's just have that and don't bother with renaming things now. If you're not so sure, we can do 'semi-final pre-release' release or name it gamma (but not delta, delta means difference between two versions, however Greek alphabet has lot more letters, and we may name the final release 'omega', which sounds cool).

[Neon_Knight]

Renaming is easy. All I have to do is to rename the filenames (.aas .bsp and .map) and their entries in the .arena file. Hence why I choose to do so before the final release. That and the fact that servers may use old versions with bugs (that's always a chance with anything). I want to avoid that as much as possible.

[Moixie]

I will soon be able to post the maps. I just solved the bot problem on the DM with a new platform (as you can see on attachments), all the rest is done. I check once more if everything is OK, they should be each posted before 11 PM.

[pelya]

It looks nice, and gameplay will probably be more consistent.

[Akom74]

It looks nice, and gameplay will probably be more consistent.

I agree, good job Moixie 

[Moixie]

It looks nice, and gameplay will probably be more consistent.

I agree, good job Moixie 

That's actually a compromise for bots, I personally hate it !
I changed it a bit, it's larger and directly connected with the grenade area, this improves a bit the flow and the global look of the map. It looks prettier and is more useful than what I thought, this isn't so bad.
However, I couldn't end this and I've to wake up early tomorrow. I'd say I'd need one hour maxi to finise it (if I don't meet any problem), but I also have to check it all works well and it would take some more time. I'm back Tomorrow, around 18h, I should be able to post the maps some hours later. Sorry.

[Gig]

@Neon_Knight
Ok, then... if you want, make the RC with working names.
But however, when the final package will be made with final names, let us give a look to it "internally", before publicizing its official release.
However, can you already insert map rotation scripts in the RC, although with the old names for now?

PS: Can I update DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack#Rules]the "Rules" section to specify that it's advisable that maps prevent initial telefrag at least up to X players? With X being...? 12? 16? "12, but better 16"?

@Jan
dm2:
- Ok, no more initial telefrags happen with 16 players. Good!
- For the small glitch if you shoot a rocket above that teleporter, you fixed it on the left side, but on the right side, it's still there (see first screenshot).
- If one keeps the file name you used (zzzz_oajgdm1_2_3.pk3), in this map a few shaders (mostly, lights next to the floor) are not working correctly. Maybe conflicting with OACMPBeta3? Renaming the .pk3 to z__oajgdm1_2_3.pk3 seems to fix the problem: "_" character is loaded after "z" character (if you want to override z_test with something else, you should use z__test, and not zz_test, I think).

dm3
- Bevels now look well.
- I tried in TDM mode, ordering the bot to "follow me". It has been capable to perform that jump you see in the second screenshot, although it takes absurdly long paths to follow me due to it "seeing" an invisble wall just behind his back on the screenshot. I advise to open a clusterportal-ed hole in the botclip wall there, to allow bots to actually take advantage of that jump, that they can do (although you know, the reason why bots would take a certain jump or not is alchemy).
- Go in the exact place where I am in the third screenshot, still ordering the bot to follow you. It will take strange paths, but will not be able to reach you, while theoretically it should be very easy. It is because there is another botclip wall without an opening to let bots pass through.

General: miramar.shader in your current package seems as it was before:

textures/miramar/miramar
{
   qer_editorimage textures/miramar/miramar.tga
   surfaceparm      sky
   surfaceparm      noimpact
   surfaceparm      nolightmap
   skyparms textures/miramar/miramar 1024 -
}

While this is what you said you have in your customized skies.shader, some posts ago

textures/miramar/miramar
{
   qer_editorimage textures/miramar/miramar_bk.tga //path of the image that shows up in Radiant
   //skyparms textures/miramar/miramar 1024 //farbox cloudheight nearbox
   //q3map_sunExt 1 0.86 0.67 350 -102 40 2 16 //red green blue intensity degrees elevation deviance samples
   //q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 160 //self other
//   q3map_skyLight 250 6 //amount iterations
//   q3map_lightSubdivide 32
//   q3map_lightRGB 1.0 1.0 0.9
   surfaceparm     sky //tells the game it's a sky
   surfaceparm     noimpact //no projectiles impact here
   surfaceparm     nolightmap //no shadows on this surface
   surfaceparm     nomarks //no burn marks
 }

There are some differences, and this is not good. Apart from a few "commented out" lines (that are not important), I can notice that one contains "skyparms" line "active", while the other one has got it "commented out". I don't know exactly what "skyparms" does, however the shader in the package has got some parameters that differ from what you used while mapping: this means that who would re-compile your map, would have somewhat different results, and would not be able to understand the reason. Also the qer_editorimage value is different (this brings to bad-looking "shader image missing" in the editor).
I don't know if this "miramar" shader is the only one that differs from what you use while mapping and what there is the package. Sorry for annoying you, but I advise to copy again all your custom shaders from your working .shader file to the .shader files you placed in the package (you may use a single .shader file in the package, if you wish... I would prefer a such solution).
And by the way, did you do some other try with your shaderlist.txt? We may try to help if there are problems... If you could map using the same exact .shader file you place in the release, I would be less worried...


@Moixie
Screenshot seems good.


PS: I wanted to do some fixing on my map today, but Real Life does not allow that.

[Neon_Knight]

I do keep a more recent version of miramar.shader in the last beta, this was the version which fixed the sky glitch AFAIC.

[Moixie]

finished !


@Gig, I'll test later

[Neon_Knight]

Great! Once Gig releases v13, RC1 will be packed.

BTW, has someone noticed that this is the longest thread in the history of the OA forum?

[pelya]

BTW, has someone noticed that this is the longest thread in the history of the OA forum?

Go us!

[Akom74]

Great! Once Gig releases v13, RC1 will be packed.

BTW, has someone noticed that this is the longest thread in the history of the OA forum?

We start this mappack in December 7 2012, i hope in one year this pack will be released officially.

[Akom74]

finished !


@Gig, I'll test later

@Moixie: It's just my problem or i didn't hear any sound in your latest version ?
Also levelshots are missing.

[pelya]

We can copy levelshots from previous versions, and not every map required to have music (although it would be nice)

[Neon_Knight]

Yep, that's why I've placed "recommended" instead of "required".

[Gig]

finished !

Hi! After a quick test, I noticed that in mx4ctf8, bots ignore the megahealth. I had the impression it was placed higher than usual, instead of on the ground. I checked the .map file, and found out that it has got the "suspended" flag checked. Bots try to get "suspended" items only if they can reach them using a jump-pad. I would suggest you to uncheck the "suspended" flag.

And about mx4dm5 (but wasn't it "mx1dm5" before?)... I've seen a bot taking a jump-pad to go to the upper floor! However, there is still the bug that the "Domination point" falls down when the hatch opens. I see in the .map that it is already flagged as "suspended", but it looks like that flag does not work for it (gamecode bug?), because I saw it falling down. And maybe bots would still have problems also if that would have worked: quad damage is "suspended", and bots do not go for it: using the jumppad is probably too hard for them, and they avoid walking over the hatch: probably recognize hatch as a danger, but to not recognize it's possible to get the quad by just walking. In fact, bots do not go for the Domination point even before it falls down... Maybe you may move Domination point away from the hatch.

UPDATE: MX4DM5 searches for OA8.ogg... but the real name of the music file is OA08.ogg. MX4CTF8 seems to have the same issue.

UPDATE2: Although my OA installation should be quite "clean", I still don't see jump-pads in your DM map as animated.
Opening the .map, I found they are "evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red": that shader is located in pak6-patch088.pk3/scripts/evil8_base.shader

textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red
{
   q3map_lightimage textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red_glow.tga
   surfaceparm metalsteps
   q3map_surfacelight 100
   
   {
      map textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red
      animmap 10 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-1 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-2 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-3 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-4 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-5 textures/evil8_fx/e8jumpspawn02red-6
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      tcGen lightmap
      blendfunc filter
   }

}

I don't know... where is the error?
File extensions (.tga or .jpg) are missing... but I'm making some try and it seems it is not the problem (or not the only one) that prevents animation from working... missing blendfunc maybe?

For reference, Q3 shader manual, "animmap" section: http://toolz.nexuizninjaz.com/shader/shader/section6.htm#6.1.3

[Gig]

@Jan, Moixie:
Hi, did you read my comments of these days? Jan, did you try aligning shader files and/or working with shaderlist.txt?

@Akom:
Did you try sending a PM to Fromhell about those textures you are uncertain if are acceptable or not?

@All
A thing I have not yet understood about NetRadiant... under its folder, there is oa.game\baseoa\default_shaderlist.txt. If one also uses his own shaderlist.txt file, are those two files summed up, or the "default_shaderlist.txt" is used only if you don't have a shaderlist.txt of your own?

In these days, I worked a lot on cluster portals on my map... V13 is almost ready (I have to do some more tests with bots behavior.... and I still hope that someone may give some feedback about V12). I think this time I will also create a separate package with source photoshop and gimp files! But however, I'd like to have also fixed versions of other guys' maps, before the RC.  

PS: Some people asked something to get cover from the Railgun, but did not specify where exaclty to place them (something between the podium and the jump-pad that brings to the rail, maybe?). If you have suggestions, tell now.

[jangroothuijse]

@Jan, Moixie:
Hi, did you read my comments of these days? Jan, did you try aligning shader files and/or working with shaderlist.txt?

@Akom:
Did you try sending a PM to Fromhell about those textures you are uncertain if are acceptable or not?

@All
A thing I have not yet understood about NetRadiant... under its folder, there is oa.game\baseoa\default_shaderlist.txt. If one also uses his own shaderlist.txt file, are those two files summed up, or the "default_shaderlist.txt" is used only if you don't have a shaderlist.txt of your own?

In these days, I worked a lot on cluster portals on my map... V13 is almost ready (I have to do some more tests with bots behavior.... and I still hope that someone may give some feedback about V12). I think this time I will also create a separate package with source photoshop and gimp files! But however, I'd like to have also fixed versions of other guys' maps, before the RC.  

PS: Some people asked something to get cover from the Railgun, but did not specify where exaclty to place them (something between the podium and the jump-pad that brings to the rail, maybe?). If you have suggestions, tell now.

I did read the comments, in the weekend i may have some time...in the .map files, dm1 to 3 have the same skybox, but at compile time, dm1 needs to have the skylight turned off...so...well...i may have made a bit of a mess of it....

Cover from the railgun: i have been known to do some trickjumping, so perhaps speeds has something to do with it, but i did not feel like i could not find cover.

While i appreciate the effort you take in testing the botplay in my map, i personally prefer a stable frametime over bots not having to occasionally take a 10m longer route near the corner of a map. So i hope you understand i am going to call this a design descision and opt not to change it. I do like your method of testing and in the future will try it myself.

How are are your clusters working out? You should test as soon and as much as possible, if you have a complex system of clusters it gets annoying to try and debug them.

I did give you feedback on v12! Its good so don't screw it up !

[Gig]

I did read the comments, in the weekend i may have some time...in the .map files, dm1 to 3 have the same skybox, but at compile time, dm1 needs to have the skylight turned off...so...well...i may have made a bit of a mess of it....

Yes, I think that being sure that the shaders you are using while mapping are the same exact shaders that are in the release, is an important thing.

While i appreciate the effort you take in testing the botplay in my map, i personally prefer a stable frametime over bots not having to occasionally take a 10m longer route near the corner of a map. So i hope you understand i am going to call this a design descision and opt not to change it. I do like your method of testing and in the future will try it myself.

So, you tried opening a small clusterportalled hole in that botclip wall, and it ended up "fusing" two different clusters into one? It can be, cluster portals are a mysterious thing...
However, do as you fell.  
About the method for testing bot navigation, are you talking about ordering them to follow you? I read about it in "testing .aas files" section in Q3Radiant manual. By the way, also that good "bot_testclusters" command in the guide you linked some posts ago has been very useful (and it also does what bot_testsolid does).

How are are your clusters working out? You should test as soon and as much as possible, if you have a complex system of clusters it gets annoying to try and debug them.

I'm making tests. It seems bots work well enugh, even if a few clusters have strange shapes. Of course I will test some more. Clusters are really a pain!!!!!

I did give you feedback on v12! Its good so don't screw it up !

No screw up, maybe DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/ModCompat/CorkScrew]Corkscrew mod! (Just a pun, I suppose this map is not adapt for insta-gib... I never tried it in instagib mode).

However, I was particularly referring to the fact that Suicizer just gave a short comment without actually trying the map, Moixie has not yet commented the changes I did following his suggestions, and in general nobody told me if bot-related hitches are going better...

PS: About the "covering place", I just inserted an "architrave" (a sort of "dolmen") in the middle between the podium and the jump-pad that goes to the railgun... I hope this may fit, and do not screw up gameplay.

[Akom74]

@Akom:
Did you try sending a PM to Fromhell about those textures you are uncertain if are acceptable or not?

Sorry if i'm late  

I've sended PM to Fromhell time ago but i've no answer about other things (OA3), also in some topic i've asked for textures issues but no one answer and tell me to ask to Fromhell  .

Fromhell !! Where are you ? We need you !!!  

@Neon_Knight: About the RC of volume 1 ? It's all ok ?

[Neon_Knight]

I'm waiting for Gig's latest version of udestruction.

[Gig]

I'm adjusting some issues with bot play caused by the changes in cluster portals.

However, there are already some issues pointed out in Jan's and Moixie's maps, that should be fixed before the RC, IMHO.
Any suggestion about the shader issue in Moixie map, a few posts above?

[jangroothuijse]

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta8.pk3

[Akom74]

jangroothuijse i have to tell you: Good Job !! 

A couple of "issues" 

1) I think you have to use e "weapon_clip" on the teleporter to avoid the possibility to shoot them.


2) Whoops, textures are not aligned, fix it before Gig see it. (Gig: i'm joking  )


3) Texture misalignement ?


4) Can you give at all the jumppad the effect i see in others ? (the directional one i mean).


However, good playability and good map, but i don't understand why have you decided to use Some OA (or Q3 ?) textures. I think your textures are more better and the map look well without other textures that not match with the map's style (imho).

[Gig]

1) I think you have to use e "weapon_clip" on the teleporter to avoid the possibility to shoot them.

I suppose that also just adding "surfaceparm nomarks" to the teleporter animation shader should work.  

2) Whoops, textures are not aligned.

At least another jump-pad has the same issue.

PS: Maybe these two items (see screenshot) are placed too near each other.