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sago007
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« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2008, 04:26:24 AM »

I loved the stuff I seen on 0.8.0 but I cant get server working and no help is available. Yep, frustrating deadlock Smiley
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2056.0
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« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2008, 08:20:57 AM »

Well, i only wanna say, that i Love new version and thank very much all developers Wink

New input is great and maybe better than 071 input. Only hitting sound is bad and need to be fixed, but all other is great.

..But bad thing is running of 3 different versions, hmm, i hope that at least one version (71 or 77) will be deleted and update on 080... because there are now only 6 players over head on 080....

All the best Wink and have a nice day Wink
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« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2008, 09:35:02 AM »

Only hitting sound is bad and need to be fixed, ...

And the weapon change sound, and the item picup sound, and the footstep sound and the new plasmagun sound, and ... Wink well ... *g*
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fufinha
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« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2008, 11:38:58 AM »

I actually liked the new sounds Smiley

But when I scanned the server list I seen no version info and since it can be compiled with various versions of basegame I seen no way to tell them apart. The problem is worse for the player because the default folder is always the openarena folder in the apps/home location. It would be nice to have these seperate, especially when I now have 3 versions and then I need to go and manually move stuff and I'll just give up before I even launch the game.

I don't really want to go start messing around with config files, especially since I know there's an fs_ cvar on 0.7.1 that has a different effect on later versions. I dont think people just delete the previous version after downloading the new one. If there's a popular server on a previous version then they aren't going to dispose of it to start playing bots and games they don't like like when the serverlist is barely over double figures. I don't know if there are issues with having a sub folder in the apps/home folder. Sub folders are used for mods so it makes sense to have each version located in a seperate location since they may not be compatible with each other and can complicate configs.

I didn't know 0.8.0 was on a different protocol until now so I assumed 0.7.6+ were all on 69. I have updated our server browse to include protocol 70, and only had to edit a couple of lines. http://clanarena.org/browse/getdata_70.php
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #79 on: August 16, 2008, 12:45:37 PM »

The problem is worse for the player because the default folder is always the openarena folder in the apps/home location. It would be nice to have these seperate, especially when I now have 3 versions and then I need to go and manually move stuff and I'll just give up before I even launch the game.

I don't really want to go start messing around with config files, especially since I know there's an fs_ cvar on 0.7.1 that has a different effect on later versions. I dont think people just delete the previous version after downloading the new one. If there's a popular server on a previous version then they aren't going to dispose of it to start playing bots and games they don't like like when the serverlist is barely over double figures. I don't know if there are issues with having a sub folder in the apps/home folder. Sub folders are used for mods so it makes sense to have each version located in a seperate location since they may not be compatible with each other and can complicate configs.

The problem if you separate "home dirs" is you'll download several times new maps ; or you'll waste some disk space if you copy yourself maps in double.
I haven't tried, but it would be better to let all maps and models on this common home directory, and have specific files in the $installation_dir_0.x.x/baseoa
Also, we are not meant to have several OA versions, keeping them only helps transitions (which were problematic, but which shouldn't be a rule ...)
I didn't do, but some guy wrote some script to be able to deal with versions as he wished.
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fufinha
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« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2008, 01:15:10 PM »

I thought about that too, but I think maps default to baseoa. On the client, people with different versions will still have seperate folders for different games (but doesn't apply to the home folder).  It would be obvious I think that people could just copy the maps over, but they would still have to do that anyway in the current set up.

I think a map will only save to the clients apps folder if there is a sub folder inside the mod called maps, but not too sure. I just remember When I downloaded defrag it unpacked with a maps and demos folder, so they are seperate from the base game maps.

edit: I dont know if linux handles files differently but on windows there isnt generally a base folder in the home/apps folder where the mods are. The baseoa folder will exist in the main basegame location
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 01:20:50 PM by missbehaving » Logged
Gerbil
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« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2008, 07:47:07 PM »

I say it's about time we move to oa0.8 lols

just waiting for that mac mirror Tongue
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« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2008, 02:00:12 AM »

I strongly feel  there should be work done to move towards backward compatibility in future versions. Although I couldn't code it                         Smiley
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kit89
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« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2008, 06:51:53 AM »

Quote
I strongly feel  there should be work done to move towards backward compatibility in future versions. Although I couldn't code it       

Why? These are 0. releases. Guaranteed for mistakes & bugs, as it's still in heavy development. After the 1.1 release you'll start to notice an effort to keep it stable between releases.

For me Backwards compatibility is fine. I have multiple OA versions on my comp all running fine. 0.6.0, 0.7.0/1, 0.7.6/7, & 0.8.0.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2008, 09:08:21 AM »

hmm, installing several versions is not what I call "compatibility" Wink

It's just impossible to have compatibility if you don't stick to a single protocol version, the question is : should the protocol version be changed again ? I suppose not.

Compatibility is meant to be maintained within a same branch (without success with 0.7.x branch, as 0.7.6 broke it).
But you can have 0.8.0, 0.8.1, 0.8.2 ... which should just bring some new data packs (adding .pk3 as a patch) and that will work fine.
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fufinha
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« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2008, 10:36:44 AM »

I still play 1.16 up to 1.32 on q3. I have a little program called version switcher that enables me to do so. Many people use it and play on servers they did so years ago. I only use it to enable defrag. I play on servers that have existed for years and years, they are still always busy. Why? The game play is good. What does a number mean to me? Nothing! That's what. I play the game and play the games I enjoy, if I were to dispose of stuff and just move on then I couldn't have enjoyed it that much to begin with. What if you didn't like the direction the game was going, does that mean the game dies when everything just sucks, even though the same people are playing the same game I like on an earlier version?

Sorry, I like the game, not numbers.

edit: I think it's also worth highlighting there maybe community/s at each level, even modifications push a version that may still be going strong today. Even on 1.16 you don't find many servers if at all without delag code, I can't remember ever playing q3 without delagged options.

Impossible? From impossible to one extra click of the mouse to launch the game here for full compatibility...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 11:29:58 AM by missbehaving » Logged
Cacatoes
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« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2008, 01:26:48 PM »

The thing is, you can't really compare OA and Q3.
First, it's much more dangerous to stick to old versions of a software which is under heavy development, whereas Q3 was already a commercial and finished product. You'll miss some assets, and much things which make "fake-compatibilty" hard to maintain even with an helping software such as the one you use for Q3.
Moreover, It's always a failure if guys have to try several versions to know which one they like, which one they'll use to run their server. We can consider Q3 made some mistakes if they didn't manage to keep one version which makes everyone happy.
Another point is, we're talking about libre software here, it's not really as if we were imprisoned into one of the versions which was released, if you can't live with the project's choice, be sure of what you do and fork it, that will avoid you living with old bugs and having a dead project which can barely evolve. At least you'd be able to take profit of recent protocols, more efficient rendering algorithms, more maps, more bugs corrected, and so on.
But I see no reason of a community split, particularly when what annoys people comes from client-side. We should instead use common servers, would avoid us to have empty servers or having to switch between versions all the time.
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fufinha
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« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2008, 11:48:32 PM »

But then the updated version of the engine on the earlier version is closer to the finished product of q3, the same one as  you suggest. Yet more code changes are implemented in later versions (which has always resulted in patches or issues of some sort) giving the oppertunity of yet more dangerous code.

I play OA basically because it's effectivelly q3 code. The sheep who posted about evolution and such, and the blind people who just follow the sheep onto any road are playing a dangerous game. If these people want to evolve go get off your fat arses and fucking play Q4.. why you stuck on an end of lifed fucking engine then insist on people updating on a q3 based game. Maybe people play it because it's free, then perhaps these people may not be able to afford to pay for hardware required if future releases demand it. Thats why they can't simply just close previous releases of the game.

The way I see it, your either a sheep or a player. A player will give the new version a try. And if the earlier version ends up migrating, then the update is a popular and a succesful one. Some people may not have any reason to update. Most items are already in mods and have been since 2002 and this is the stuff being ported to OA right now. I could simply have most of this stuff stuff in paks. More choice, more stabitlity. An admin who just upgrades with no thought face the same risk. With Q3 it ended up with a yard of broken servers but some good things did escape and survive, like defrag. 

Yes, I agree with many of the comments, like it being a failure if people need to try different versions to find out what they like. That maybe more complex because someone could take all the good stuff from later versions and put it in the earlier version, which is effectively what they done on 1.16. So then an earlier version can be more advanced than a later release. I also agree on the release structure. I hope the release will be patches from now on! No more 300mb upgrades to put in a map or 2 and crosshairs from http://www.bullseyecrosshairs.com/  - I mean what has really changed in the code? It would be simpler if I could just consider the base game and compare the releases. People can be impressed by what has been done while others already have the same features that they have had in some mod released 8 years ago. I could post some really stinging stuff about some of the bullyish ways and insults to try and get people to upgrade but I think there's less of that now. Hopefully the development is moving in the right direction now.
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« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2008, 11:57:30 PM »

I hope the release will be patches from now on!
Unfortunately in the world of Free Software development and the nature of sv_pure, that can't happen. There's no reason to freeze all the big paks at 0.8.0 forever. I mean what if the patches add so much redundancy and get big themselves?

I might do xdelta patches in the future though for the 0.8.0->0.9.0 version jump. (That is, if xdelta is efficient with zipped up stuff and such lol)
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fufinha
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« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2008, 12:29:59 AM »

I've always liked the idea of being able to join a server and try out new stuff, even if it means I have to download packages and maps. It could be a presentation or a close to what you get in the latest release. I don't think I've even seen half the new maps, I just see ones I don't recognise on server browsers. It would be good if there were such servers and then maybe people would see the value of upgrading.

Upgrading and patching now seems to have people concerned and less curious, since the pool of people upgrading seems a harder task each time. It would be good if there could be some comprimise, even if the cost was having big patches to connect to a single server, but still compatible on the platform... then at some stage release the game in a neat bundle. Just a thought. I would like to upgrade myself and others are probably the same too. I think that will happen more as the dark nights close in. It has been holiday season for alot of people and I've heard speculation that the sun actually exists, although I need to travel to witness it. Smiley
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cosmo
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« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2008, 02:28:30 AM »

So missbehaving please be so kind and tell us what you still like in 0.7.1 and miss in 0.8.0 as you say you don't even know half of the new stuff. Is it just that you gave your heart to the old release? You hurt yourself: Still advertising 0.7 won't bring up new servers running the current version. Backwards compatibility doesn't work when you edited most of the content.

Ever thought about that Q3 was not optimal in every aspect (eg no unlag code) so why do you want every single mod reimplement the same things all over again but the vanilla version goes without?
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fufinha
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« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2008, 10:20:13 AM »

That was an old sig, that's all - I didn't inded to advertise anything. I haven't been active due to circumstances.

I don't want every mod reimplemented. It depends on what your definition of modification is. I consider Haste's unlagged to be improved net code as with many other improvements. Just happens some of the code is implemented in certain mods but missing from others. It would be good to have pmove_accurate - that's the only thing missing as far as I would like, but I don't think the source is available. Any change I done was minimal, I only replaced a few sounds in the media folder.

Thanks for the warning. It was beautiful.
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ToasT
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« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2008, 06:56:10 PM »

  I think this whole situation sux! for everyone. I have all 3 versions on my system and I still play 7.1 almost exclusively! WHY??? It's simple, that's where the best players play on the only servers that have more than 2 real people playing on it. If 8.0 had more players on it then I would be there. The hardcore players are the only ones's that can change this! They have to decide as a group that it's time to move on, Otherwise we will continue down this dividing path that may kill OUR game altogether.
  I am old school I played Quake 1 on dial up with keyboard ONLY. I did not play a FPS online again until I found OA (many years later). I Love this game (all versions), and If I had my choice everyone would simply switch to the latest version and all would be right! Sadly I know that is not that simple........................Flame at will.....

ToasT
 
 
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« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2008, 12:26:38 AM »

as sheep I hope that all major releases after 1.x.x will be compatible and that I won't have to redownload a client until 2.x.x Maybe this project should have 2 seperate branches; testing and stable. I've liked every release and hope the fun continues for a long time Smiley And maybe this is becoming more of an issue because 1.0 is around the corner (hopefully), and nothing has been said about the versioning scheme up until now? idk.

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« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2008, 10:19:56 AM »

  I think this whole situation sux! for everyone. I have all 3 versions on my system and I still play 7.1 almost exclusively! WHY??? It's simple, that's where the best players play on the only servers that have more than 2 real people playing on it. If 8.0 had more players on it then I would be there. The hardcore players are the only ones's that can change this! They have to decide as a group that it's time to move on, Otherwise we will continue down this dividing path that may kill OUR game altogether.
  I am old school I played Quake 1 on dial up with keyboard ONLY. I did not play a FPS online again until I found OA (many years later). I Love this game (all versions), and If I had my choice everyone would simply switch to the latest version and all would be right! Sadly I know that is not that simple........................Flame at will.....

ToasT
 
 

Well, You may be in luck. Alma's server, Nemesis, maybe upgrading to ver.080 this weekend. So, that will bring alot of clans and best players over to the latest OA. Once this happens, the playerbase on ver.071 should slowly fade out.

HIT
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« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2008, 10:33:42 AM »

Well, You may be in luck. Alma's server, Nemesis, maybe upgrading to ver.080 this weekend. So, that will bring alot of clans and best players over to the latest OA. Once this happens, the playerbase on ver.071 should slowly fade out.

HIT

That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.
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« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2008, 10:52:56 AM »


That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.

I agree but they should only upgrade when it is "safe".  Did you upgrade from XP to Vista when it came out. Hell no..cuz you aint stupid. Software needs to be tested out to be aware of the changes. It appears that ver.080 is looking safe in spite of minor issue it has. I know I'm ready to upgrade now. Question is, Is everyone else im affiliated with ready as well? Some people have MACs and they cant make that move yet. Sad
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« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2008, 11:40:47 AM »

I agree but they should only upgrade when it is "safe".  Did you upgrade from XP to Vista when it came out. Hell no..cuz you aint stupid. Software needs to be tested out to be aware of the changes. It appears that ver.080 is looking safe in spite of minor issue it has. I know I'm ready to upgrade now. Question is, Is everyone else im affiliated with ready as well? Some people have MACs and they cant make that move yet. Sad

Yes. That's more reasonable. Still, I think in most cases the transition could usually begin within one month if nothing major arises. I believe the sooner the better - except with Vista Smiley
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Logan
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« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2008, 03:16:06 AM »

I play 0.8 all the time now. I have deleted my older versions of OA as the game progressed and if there were more people like me, the servers would have more players. Smiley

0.8 is awesome. The hitsound though is a little too timid for my liking though.

I usually camp out at a CTF server called unlagged CTF or something like that. I usually change it to FFA via voting. Smiley

Someone in this thread mentioned a server going up this weekend? Hope it's got great ping, we could use more servers there with a good ping. Someone neeeds to talk to the guys at Beergarden, Digichalk, and Airlogic. Great servers, but last I checked they havn't gotten with the times...
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« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2008, 05:06:17 AM »

Quote
That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.

Yep, that's the key: choice. We are talking about software that hasn't reached stable status. Each version introduces/changes a good deal of issues that not everybody like--if they don't break something completely. A lot of people was happy with 0.7.1. The project moved on. That's perfectly fine and a good sign that it's healthy, but you can't expect everybody to keep up with the development pace and blindly upgrade no matter what (*). I myself stay tuned here and on Rainbow forums, yet all these multiple upgrades/patches confused me; I can imagine that a random player, who got the game from who knows where, may just get completely lost about what the hell is going on. On the other hand, it seems that no much testing is done before each release. I mean getting the whole stuff and try it out by no less than ten players; many stupid bugs would be avoided _beforehand_.

You are presuming also that players will kindly accept being forced to something they don't like. I know of people who thought about migrating to Q3 because of the mouse input, for instance. If 0.7.1 wasn't around I guess they would've already done so.

I have the last three OA releases. I probably played 0.7.6 for not more than a couple of days in total, and 0.8 for no more than a couple of hours...and I played _a lot_ to OA these weeks/months. Why imposing anything on players and OA server administrators? Without this choice, many players would have left the boat.

(*) If, at least, there was a workaround to keep compatibility between versions, all this empty servers thing would not be an issue (whether that is at all possible I have no clue).
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