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Author Topic: Open Arena Expanded Beta 50  (Read 334385 times)
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #300 on: November 17, 2011, 03:52:25 PM »

VM files (compiled from OAXr284 branch oa-0.8.Cool.
http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/oa/dev088/vm-0.8.8-2.zip

Only qagame.qvm has actually been updated.

Fixes:
Skulls and persistent powerups are dropped again.
Whoa, that was fast.
Thank you Sago!
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« Reply #301 on: May 14, 2012, 09:44:58 AM »

I cannot change the first post anymore so here is an update. No visible changes except for the stretched background on wide screen displays.

http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/eliminationSource/openArenaExpansionB51.tar.bz2
http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/eliminationSource/oaxB51.zip

Change log:
Quote
New in Beta 51:
All changes from 0.8.8
Added command "ui_writemappools". If the arena files are loaded this command will dump the gamelists so they can be used by g_autonextmap (should be used to generate new gamelists for new versions)
Server will now execute "gametype_GAMETYPENUMBER.cfg" on gametype change
Server executes "mapscripts/g_MAPNAME.cfg" and "mapscripts/g_MAPNAME_GAMETYPENUMBER.cfg" then changing map. It will fallback to "mapscripts/g_default.cfg" and/or "mapscripts/g_default_GAMETYPENUMBER.cfg" if any or both or the scripts are missing.
Moved STAT_PERSISTANT_POWERUP to last so that STAT_* are numbered as in 0.8.1
Weapon accuracy are now written to the logfile. The stats are written at the end of the game or then a player leaves
Teams can now have separate spawn points in Domination
The background are now stretched on wide screen displays
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Gig
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« Reply #302 on: May 14, 2012, 04:40:55 PM »

Hi! I haven't tried this yet... does it include the "standing over rotating object fix TEST"? That would need extensive tests (including online with high pings), I suppose. About that, did I suggest to anyway provide a variable or dmflag to allow server admins to restore classic behavior?

About the change in domination spawn points (from using DM spawnpoints to Team spawn ponts), why did you do that? Cause of this thread? http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4476.0
I'm not sure it is a good idea. Other people here, what do tou think about that?
PS: for some reason I don't know, OA 0.8.8 changelog (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4451.0 changelist that anyway contained some errors and missings) said "now uses FFA spawnpoints in Domination"... I thought it always worked that way... Huh
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sago007
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« Reply #303 on: May 15, 2012, 10:05:46 AM »

Hi! I haven't tried this yet... does it include the "standing over rotating object fix TEST"?
I forgot about that change but yes it does.

About the change in domination spawn points (from using DM spawnpoints to Team spawn ponts), why did you do that?
Domination uses its own spawnpoints but does fall back to deathmatch spawnpoints if they are missing (like all other gametypes). It does NOT use CTF spawnpoints. It will use info_player_dom_COLOR if they exists if not it will fall back to info_player_dom and then to info_player_deathmatch. All existing maps will keep there current behavior.

Double Domination does the same it just falls back from info_player_dd_COLOR > info_player_dd > info_player_deathmatch.

I have a small proof of concept map on how the new spawnpoints can be used but NetRadiant are semi-broken in Ubuntu 12.04.
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Gig
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« Reply #304 on: May 15, 2012, 04:08:05 PM »

Excuse me, could you please check in (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes to see if it correctly reports the info for the current (0.8.8) version?
At the moment, for Domination it says it uses "deathmatch spawn ponts", and for Double Domination it says it uses "info_player_dd" or "info_payer_deathmatch" otherwise.

(Stupid?) idea: maybe one may already mention there the future behavior (specifying next release date is unknown), to.. so people may already begin designing maps with the new spawning points?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 04:29:54 PM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #305 on: May 17, 2012, 04:29:08 PM »

Okay guys... we need some testing with the rotating fix. I created the little "rotate_test" map that you find attached here, with some platforms rotating at different speeds. It sucks, but it's simply for a tech test (weapons and flags included)!
It looks like the effect is really much better than the normal one (altough the platform itself continues to "vibrate")...
We need some testing, to check what happens when some object is over the platforms, or is blocking them... if it is easier or harder to hit (or be hitten by) someone over that rotating object (with hitscan weapons and not)... trying the same with standard game and OAXB51.
We should also do some tests online, possible also with high ping.

In the map attached (created with Q3radiant), you can find .bsp, .map and .aas (and the GPLv2 "copying" file), so you can do your own tests (e.g. adding platforms that rotate over X and Y planes... at the moment I only used platform rotating over the default Z plane).

PS: Sago, have you read my previous post?

PPS: What about a switch to enable or disable the fix? That would also make tests quicker...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 01:31:00 AM by Gig » Logged

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sago007
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« Reply #306 on: May 18, 2012, 09:16:24 AM »

At the moment, for Domination it says it uses "deathmatch spawn ponts", and for Double Domination it says it uses "info_player_dd" or "info_payer_deathmatch" otherwise.
Under general it says:
Quote
Double Domination has specific spawnpoints (info_player_dd, info_player_dd_blue and info_player_dd_red).
I will look through them to see if I can clarify some of the things.

About the rotation fix. I would not trust it in game play for the time being, it is really just making an optimistic guess for something that could be calculated exactly.   
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Gig
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« Reply #307 on: May 18, 2012, 04:38:30 PM »

Thank you for the fix in the wiki.

About the rotation fix, instead...
I don't know how the fix works... what was already there -and disabled for some reason- by iD Software and what you did/changed, instead... (OAX r287, right?)
If you wanna sum up what's its problem, what could be done to address it... and what are you planning to do about it (e.g. for the moment, to keep it but disabled by default)...

Ps: could you please explain to me what's that "dmflags enabled overlays" of r277?
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« Reply #308 on: May 19, 2012, 02:36:36 AM »

Throwing resources after something that isn't used are not worth anything. That is likely the reason nothing was done about rotating.

Rotation still works at is have always done it just looks different for the client standing on a rotating platform. The new view is predicted by assuming it moves in the same direction as the last time. This is never true but for small time intervals it is close and the engine can compensate for small prediction errors (they happen every time you press a key). A little extra vector calculations could make it better.

dmflags enabled overlays are shaders placed on all players. It is not present in OpenArena, the code is for reference only.
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Gig
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« Reply #309 on: May 19, 2012, 10:35:06 AM »

Do you think that viewer's aim will be affected? With the old behavior, aiming while being on a rotating object was difficult due to the scrolling effect... but with the new behavior, is there the risk to miss anyway because the direction you see you are aiming at is not exactly the same the game is effectively aiming?
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« Reply #310 on: May 19, 2012, 12:13:48 PM »

Do you think that viewer's aim will be affected? With the old behavior, aiming while being on a rotating object was difficult due to the scrolling effect... but with the new behavior, is there the risk to miss anyway because the direction you see you are aiming at is not exactly the same the game is effectively aiming?
The angle you see now while standing on a rotating platform is much closer to the effective angle than before.
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Gig
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« Reply #311 on: May 20, 2012, 04:20:10 AM »

Good, then. Smiley

So, any ideas about the reason why iD software left this algorithm disabled? You said that it may have been made better (more accurate), but that anyway it's better than the behavior they placed in the actual game (and you say it should not have real counter-indications, right?)... why did they left it out, then? Framerate drop, maybe?

And I haven't understood yet if you plan to set some kind of switch to enable and disable it... and in that case, if it would be on or off by default, if it would be enabled or disabled for all players by the admin, or if the players would be able to select independently (or maybe locked by videoflags?)...

PS: sorry for annoying you... Smiley

PS: in any way, I would suggest map makers to do not make excessive use of rotating platforms anyway (altough some more than before may be used), thinking to all old mods that cannot use the fix.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #312 on: July 08, 2013, 05:33:18 PM »

It's practically a year since the last report, so I'm sending here some stuff by Gig, regarding the grapple:
Bad news about the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Weapons#Offhand_grapple]offhand grapple. Being a "cut off" q3 feature, it seems that id software left in some bugs in bots a.i. (this explains why bot_grapple variable is disabled by default).
Making some tests, I noticed that if the bot has not collected the grapple yet, but it needs to go to a place that it would reach with the grapple if it had one... it starts pointlessly firing with normal weapons (standing still) aiming to the wall where it would have fired the grapple if it had it. This means that currently, it is not advisable to enable bot_grapple variable, except for tests (e.g. one might use it with elimination_grapple option).

(...)
I don't know if the cause of the bug is in gamecode, or in BSPC, or both... but I can guess it should be possible to fix it with gamecode updates.
1) Bots still have some problems using it (I've seen them missing an edge by a few centimeters when firing the grapple, but repeating the same exact launch various times without correcting the trajectory). A gamecode update would be necessary to have fully working bots with grapple. (...)
2) In current OA, bot_grapple variable is disabled by default. Of course, we may temporarily enable it in the map rotation script we may include with OACMP01, but how many pepole will actually use those scripts? And more, if one breaks the scripts and then loads another map compiled with -grapplereach option without disabling bot_grapple? In that case, bots would pointlessly shoot with standard weapons where they would shoot with the grapple, if they do not have it.
2.1) If and when bot behavior in gamecode will be fixed, I think that it would be safer to change the name of the bot_grapple variable, trying to avoid people finding bot grapple support enabled when playing with any old mod or old OA version, where bot_grapple support will remain buggy forever. But then a map rotation script with bot_grapple option would be outdated!
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« Reply #313 on: July 08, 2013, 09:32:26 PM »

I don't know why there's suddenly a priority of interest for wanting the grapple as a standard weapon.  It might be an overly large feat to attempt to fix what was broken and not figured out by Mr Elusive himself and would probably require changes in the AAS format, like calculating potential grappling areas.
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Gig
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« Reply #314 on: July 08, 2013, 11:49:52 PM »

I don't know why there's suddenly a priority of interest for wanting the grapple as a standard weapon.  It might be an overly large feat to attempt to fix what was broken and not figured out by Mr Elusive himself and would probably require changes in the AAS format, like calculating potential grappling areas.
AFAIK, BSPC can already calculate potential grappling areas, if you compile the map with -grapplereach option. If then you enable bot_grapple in-game, you can see bots use it as shortcut to reach higher places (at specific spots). They are not able to arbitrarily attach on any wall like humans would do (if you order a bot to follow you and attach to the ceiling, he would not be able to do the same)... but howerver also their shortcut mode could be nice to see (once a few bugs in their a.i. have been fixed).
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #315 on: July 17, 2013, 10:23:05 AM »

Can I suggest two new commands?

autoscreenshot <integer> (default 0)
Takes a screenshot every <integer> minutes on the match. Outputs TGA file.
autoscreenshotJPEG <integer> (default 0)
Takes a screenshot every <integer> minutes on the match. Outputs JPG file.
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Gig
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« Reply #316 on: July 23, 2013, 03:06:07 AM »

Can I suggest two new commands?

autoscreenshot <integer> (default 0)
Takes a screenshot every <integer> minutes on the match. Outputs TGA file.
autoscreenshotJPEG <integer> (default 0)
Takes a screenshot every <integer> minutes on the match. Outputs JPG file.

Uh? What's the use for a such thing?  Huh
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« Reply #317 on: July 25, 2013, 10:24:40 AM »

The only useful autoscreenshot command I've seen is of the scoreboard at the end of the round. For any other case autorecorddemo should suffice.
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Gig
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« Reply #318 on: August 01, 2013, 01:34:59 AM »

I think this stuff is something we should look into:

Any idea about the reason why the bots specified in the .arena file are actually used only in some gametypes, and not in others?
Bots in the arena-files are limited to FFA-gametypes only. It has always been like that. Of course that could be changed in the future.
Considering most OA gametypes are team-based, I suppose we may consider the ability to specify the bots to play on them (we have a lot of maps and a lot of gametypes, but lazy players will always play them with the same bots).
But how to implement a such thing, and keep backwards compatibility?
- Should just use the same bots specified for FFA mode, removing the last one if necessary to make the total number of players balanced?
-- But if the bots specified for FFA mode are very few (e.g. one or two), there would be too few players for actually playing a CTF game, isn't it?
-- Maybe one may allow an option "word" in the .arena (fake comment, for compatibility?), to tell the game to use the bots specified by map creator... and if that word is missing, just using the classic default bots (or the opposite)?
- Should we allow to specify a separate list of bots to be used for team-based modes?
--This would allow more flexibility, but at the cost of making the .arena file bigger (and I don't know exactly, but I think that arenas.txt has got some size limits -that already forced some maps to be "dummied out" from the maplist in the GUI-... should the game allow bigger arenas.txt files then?)
--Again, compatibilty with older versions/previous mods should be preserved (I can guess they would continue proposing the default bots, but the important thing it that they will not completely fail interpreting the .arena file). Fake comment again? Do "comments" count for the size limits of .arena file?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 03:57:34 AM by Gig » Logged

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sago007
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« Reply #319 on: August 01, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »

Comments does count for the size limit. The size limit cannot be increased without breaking compatibility.

I imagined that one could create a "MAPNAME.info" for each map with content like:
Code:
{
minPlayers "3"
maxPlayers "10"
recommentedPlayers "5"
minTeamSize "2"
maxTeamSize "6"
mpBots "sarge, penguin, jenny" #bot pool to use for multiplayer
auther "The maps auther goes here instead of in the long txt"
description "Once open a time... bla bla bla... map history"
}

{
gametype "11"
minTeamSize "3" #Overrule minTeamSize for DD
}

{
gametype "10"
maxPlayers "6" #Overrule maxPlayers for LMS
}
The game should ignore keys it does not know about, so that more may be added later.

If a key is missing just use default.

This would allow better map desciption in the GUI and allow a smarter bot_auto_minPlayers.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #320 on: August 01, 2013, 09:43:34 AM »

I support the idea of Mapname.info, at least for official OA releases. That should allow us to keep arenas.txt at a minimum (map, longname, gametype) and fill the remaining fields into mapname.info.

These files can even be included into the maps/ or scripts/ folder, like it's done on Nexuiz.
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Gig
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« Reply #321 on: August 01, 2013, 10:31:09 AM »

A such thing sounds veeery interesting...  Smiley

I would write more, but I'm late and I have to go now. Bye!

PS: Maybe the "gametype" key may use the same values of arenas.txt, instead of the number.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 10:33:44 AM by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #322 on: August 01, 2013, 11:13:57 AM »

Oh, never noticed that it can allow custom rules. That's even cooler! Especially for Harvester, which has a different capturelimit than other CTF-based gametypes.
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« Reply #323 on: August 07, 2013, 08:27:19 AM »

Well, maybe it may be useful also for Harvester, but most notably, I would mention Domination!
Oh, well... starting Domination match from the GUI, already proposes a capturelimit of 400 (instead of 0 like many other demos)...
This makes me wonder... why CTF mode proposes a capturelimit of 8 and other team-based games propose a capturelimit of 0?
However, a gametype AND map specific values may be nice.

----------------------------

An important thing is that this "extra map infos" system may work like arenas.txt and .arena files work: a main file (to be supplied and replaced with new official OA releases), plus "additional" files (to be added with each map or mappack).
Considering that could contain a lot of text (e.g. Sago mentioned map description), permitted file size should be a lot bigger than arenas.txt (at least 100x bigger? I don't know exactly.)

Hey, I can imagine a similar thing (brand-new optional files that contain extra infos, foreseeing the ability to add further tags in the future. Of course "developer" -detailed- console output may report parsing problems also for unrecognized tags.) may also be used for characters. For OA3 UI, Fromhell tested a "Biography" menu: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4780.msg47385#msg47385. I suppose also third party bots may get their own biographies, if a "description text file + character drawing file" system is provided, instead of hard-coding that part into game sources...


« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:46:29 AM by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #324 on: August 07, 2013, 11:00:08 AM »

Yeah, I can't see why such implementation would be a bad thing for OA.

I was wondering as well... does current OA or OAX support .ent files? As in, special support for entity (ammo/weapon/even giving newer gaetype support) modifications to older (made for Q3) maps without altering any file from the PK3 archives of said maps.

How much will break OA to implement this? I know that Darkplaces and Q2 have such support.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 01:51:53 PM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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