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WingedPanther
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2010, 09:42:33 PM »

I've run into a couple of interesting issues and would appreciate any thoughts/comments:

1) I've been working from the list Dimi put together here: http://oa.thedimi.net/configs/settings_db_final.xlsx  Somehow, I've got values for some settings that are outside the bounds that are listed there (minimum value = 1, I have values of 0, for example).  Any thoughts on which I should believe?

2) I've got a few items that are listed by Dimi, but not present in my config file: bot_challenge, bot_enable, bot_fastchat, bot_nochat, bot_predictobstacles, bot_rocketjump, bot_thinktime, bot_visualizejumppads, cg_bobup, scr_conspeed  I'm not to worried about them, but if there are possible issues it would be worth thinking about.

3) I've got a LOT of items that are not listed by Dimi, but are present in my config file: cg_voipteamonly, cl_anonymous, cl_consolecoloralpha, cl_consolecolorblue, cl_consolecolorgreen, cl_consolecolorred, cl_consoleheight, cl_consolekeys, cl_consoletype, cl_curllib, cl_mouseacceloffset, cl_mouseaccelstyle, cl_mumblescale, cl_usemumble, com_altivec, com_introplayed, disable_ammo_belt, disable_ammo_bfg, disable_ammo_bullets, disable_ammo_cells, disable_ammo_grenades, disable_ammo_lightning, disable_ammo_mines, disable_ammo_nails, disable_ammo_rockets, disable_ammo_shells, disable_ammo_slugs, disable_holdable_invulnerability, disable_holdable_kamikaze, disable_holdable_medkit, disable_holdable_portal, disable_holdable_teleporter, disable_item_ammoregen, disable_item_armor_body, disable_item_armor_combat, disable_item_armor_shard, disable_item_bluecube, disable_item_doubler, disable_item_enviro, disable_item_flight, disable_item_guard, disable_item_haste, disable_item_health, disable_item_health_large, disable_item_health_mega, disable_item_health_small, disable_item_invis, disable_item_quad, disable_item_redcube, disable_item_regen, disable_item_scout, disable_team_ctf_blueflag, disable_team_ctf_neutralflag, disable_team_ctf_redflag, disable_weapon_bfg, disable_weapon_chaingun, disable_weapon_gauntlet, disable_weapon_grapplinghook, disable_weapon_grenadelauncher, disable_weapon_lightning, disable_weapon_machinegun, disable_weapon_nailgun, disable_weapon_plasmagun, disable_weapon_prox_launcher, disable_weapon_railgun, disable_weapon_rocketlauncher, disable_weapon_shotgun, elimination_activewarmup, elimination_bfg, elimination_chain, elimination_ctf_oneway, elimination_grapple, elimination_grenade, elimination_lightning, elimination_machinegun, elimination_mine, elimination_nail, elimination_plasmagun, elimination_railgun, elimination_rocket, elimination_roundtime, elimination_shotgun, elimination_startarmor, elimination_starthealth, elimination_warmup, g_blueteam, g_elimination, g_redteam, g_regen, g_spawards, g_spscores1, g_spscores2, g_spscores3, g_spscores4, g_spscores5, g_spvideos, g_vampire, g_vampire_max_health, in_joystick, in_joystickthreshold, in_keyboarddebug, r_allowresize, r_centerwindow, r_ext_multisample, r_marksontrianglemeshes, r_noborder, s_alcapture, s_aldevice, s_mutewhenunfocused, sv_banfile, sv_dlurl, sv_floodprotect, sv_hostname, sv_lanforcerate, sv_master2, sv_master3, sv_master4, sv_master5, sv_maxping, sv_maxrate, sv_minping, sv_minrate, ui_setupchecked, vm_cgame, vm_game, vm_ui.  I know what the elimination_ variables and most disable_ variables do, and what their ranges/types are, but there are others that I have no idea about.  Do we have documentation, etc someplace I can refer to?

On the plus side, it does load/save on Linux, and I can implement Windows/Mac fairly quickly (compiler directives).  When completed, how would people like to see the app posted?
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sago007
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2010, 08:07:17 AM »

@WingedPanther
1.
0 usually means that the value will be ignored and the engine will use the optimal or default value. Others are not that precise. bot_nochat (0=all chat, 1=no random chat, 2= hide team chat) and cg_drawgun (diabled,visible,centered,lefthand) are no longer boolean values. Some are misguiding. Like net_enabled in range from 1 to 15: Technically 0 (disabled) is an allowed value and the filed is a bit field although most people should look at it as a bit field. The allowed range for rate is 3000 to 25000. 

2.
bot_fastchat, bot_nochat and bot_challange could perhaps be usefull to configure.

3.
I don't think they are documented in one place. Some of the ioquake3 cvars like sv_masterX are documented in the ioquake3 documentation, none of them are gameplay related.
Some of the variables introduced in OpenArena are in the wiki (especially the default server config). Some of them are not relevant for human editing. Like the g_sp*- variables that controls the single player campaign.
Few non-technical people will know the values to fill into cl_curlib, vm_game, cm_cgame, vm_ui or s_aldevice.
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WingedPanther
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2010, 05:36:53 PM »

1.  I can handle that.  I'll probably just extend the range to include 0.
2.  agreed.
3.  I agree that some variables are NOT useful to manipulate by hand. 

Here's a couple screenshots of the app, for those who are curious.
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fromhell
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2010, 06:03:31 PM »

what a mess. that's not the kind of launcher i had in mind. excessive overwhelming amounts of options isn't keeping things simple
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andrewj
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« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2010, 01:10:20 AM »

Looks more like a configuration app, which I think a lot people would find useful.  It makes sense for such an app to have most of the configurable variables in there.

BTW which toolkit is it? Looks like GTK1, which I thought nobody used anymore.
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« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2010, 01:31:38 AM »

Some button to set a variable (or all variables on the current window) to its default could be nice... but I suppose it is not easy, because default values sometimes change depending from OpenArena version.
PS: one should look for default values after entering a match, because from the main screen the previous values in your .cfg file may be erroneously told as "default" ones.
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WingedPanther
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« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2010, 04:43:17 PM »

I'm coding it in Lazarus, which may be using GTK1.  It is a configuration app, but could probably be used as a launcher as well.

Currently, all variables start at their default until read from the cfg file.  I'm working on getting everything finalized.  I just finished determining where the q3config.cfg file is stored on Windows and Macs.
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dbX
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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 10:36:27 AM »

I'm coding it in Lazarus

All right, I just like you a lot more. I'd give you a cake if I could. Lazarus is using GTK2 by default under Linux, at least since 0.9.28.x and 0.9.29.x.

While the application is nice, the amount of options is overwhelming and should probably be put into separate forms that are linked with an 'advanced' button for each category, while keeping the most important options in the already existing tabs.
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RMF
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« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2010, 11:13:36 AM »

I like the thousands of options o:)
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WingedPanther
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« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 04:55:42 PM »

I'm coding it in Lazarus

All right, I just like you a lot more. I'd give you a cake if I could. Lazarus is using GTK2 by default under Linux, at least since 0.9.28.x and 0.9.29.x.

While the application is nice, the amount of options is overwhelming and should probably be put into separate forms that are linked with an 'advanced' button for each category, while keeping the most important options in the already existing tabs.
Ubuntu 9.04 = Lazarus 0.9.26.  *sigh*.

I agree the options are a bit overwhelming.  I'm trying for completeness.  I plan to put things like the elimination_* variables under advanced.
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Marble of Doom
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« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2010, 08:48:54 PM »

I like all the options, but a person who has just started playing will have no idea what anything is.
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RMF
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« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2010, 01:50:13 AM »

I like all the options, but a person who has just started playing will have no idea what anything is.
Yeah, so maybe just make some expert mode with all settings and a standard mode with all important things?
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WingedPanther
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« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 05:44:12 AM »

I figured I'd set hints with more details.  I also wouldn't expect that most people would want to adjust most of these settings with this tool.  For me, it's useful for things like adjusting the field of view, which has no mechanism in the interface, or playing with g_elimination and the elimination_ vars.
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Logan
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« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2010, 01:00:57 AM »

For me, it's useful for things like adjusting the field of view...

That would definitly be a highlight of this. People may not realize just how useful this command is.
This reminds me of how Quake Live has many more settings you can adjust, and FOV was one of them.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2010, 10:57:20 AM »

You can find many comments about the purpose of many variables in my config (updated recently to the last version of OA) :

http://superbots.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&op=getit&lid=20

About WingedPanther's launcher, I find it very good, but indeed there are too many options at first, but this can easily be circumvented :

- Simplify the menus and add a "Show advanced options" button.
- Separate the config generator and the launcher (a good example, although made specificly for E+, is the Q3 E+ Config Editor :
http://www.excessiveplus.net/forums/thread/quake-iii-e-config-editor)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 08:36:52 AM by GrosBedo » Logged
WingedPanther
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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2010, 07:10:00 PM »

Thanks for the links, GrosBedo.  I'm thinking about hiding certain items as a more advanced feature.  Getting it working is easier if I just do it all, now, and add the ability to hide items later.  You're the second person to suggest an "advanced options" filter, though.
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Logan
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2010, 01:02:44 AM »

Make that 3 Winged.  Grin
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2010, 08:11:32 AM »

Some other ressources for vars, althrough I didn't verify their veracity :

http://ioclan.site11.com/oamanual/
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2010, 08:39:33 AM »

Another Launcher, that I and dash9 made, but for a totally different purpose, but it may be of some use for the commandline parameters and the engine behaviours :

http://superbots.co.cc/modules.php?name=Downloads&op=getit&lid=19

Feel free to use it for your project if it may be of any help, it's completely opensource.

Amongst the most useful features :

- Keep the q3config file intact and up-to-date amongst all mods.
- Random generation of a net_qport and disable cl_guidServerUniq (so multiple players on the same LAN can play on the same Internet server).
- Log rotation.
- Disable mouse acceleration on Linux (should add this feature on Windows too).
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sago007
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2010, 01:49:00 PM »

- Random generation of a net_qport and disable cl_guidServerUniq (so multiple players on the same LAN can play on the same Internet server).
net_qport should be random in current versions. I am interested in the reason for disabling cl_guidServerUniq, as far as I know it should only affect the GUID.
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WingedPanther
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2010, 05:11:51 PM »

Sounds good.  I'll plan on adding a filter to it.  I was also thinking about adding an option to detect the installed mods and allow the user to switch mods being edited.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2010, 05:59:08 AM »

- Random generation of a net_qport and disable cl_guidServerUniq (so multiple players on the same LAN can play on the same Internet server).
net_qport should be random in current versions. I am interested in the reason for disabling cl_guidServerUniq, as far as I know it should only affect the GUID.

Good news, but it should be possible to set it manually too.

As for cl_guidServerUniq, if activated, it's impossible to join twice the same server with 2 clients on the same computer. That may be a less common need, but it's very useful for testing.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2010, 10:32:09 AM »

This launcher idea has been intruiguing me lastly, because I feel one particular need which is: being able to distinguish server configurations when joining a server. Right now, there are several criterias which are hidden or which are sometimes guessed, like: OA version (081 or 085 or else), allrockets/instagib (~= gametype), sv_pure, g_catchup... that would allow server administrators to give a real name to their server, and not to try to describe their content in their name or MOTD.
As we know, the current game browser doesn't make things easy.
One goal would be to make that launcher friendly to new players. Most relevant settings/cvars could be replaced by meaningful icons on columns, which would also allow sorting and filtering.

IMO XQF is handy, but could be stripped from non-OA features and bring OA specific ones.

I feel like WingedPanther is more a configuration tool (q3config file writer) for lazy but advanced players and eventually server administrators, than a server browser or a launcher. It would have some use, but as a q3config.cfg file creator.

RN|Launcher is nearer of what I would have expected, I haven't tried it yet, from the screenshot I'd only say server cvars could be hidden in an "advanced panel".

From what fromhell seems to expect, it also seems to me that "server browser" may not be the main screen of this launcher, and that launcher's only purpose shouldn't be to start a multiplayer game, maybe it could help with some Skirmish feature but I don't have specific ideas about how these submenus could be arranged.

Here are a few sketches Tongue (true art !)

PNGs:
Main window:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept1.png (some Exit button may lack)

Multiplayer window:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept2.png (I forgot stuff like OA version, if servers are melt I suppose IT IS a relevant info) ... and there would be some hard thoughts about what is relevant or not to put in columns.

SVGs:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept1.svg
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept2.svg

Of course that's just how I see it (I thought this kind of window layout was rather obvious, in the whole not in details) but one can have a different conception.

Edit: there should also be a way to directly start the launcher in "multiplayer window" (= join internet game), probably with a shortcut parameter.

Edit2: I add, some softwares (file navigators) can customize which column should appear in the view. Such option could be handy here, there could be many options from which a player want to sort servers, while keeping it simple for new players.
Other point, I was like "hey, put nice graphical icons instead of text labels" but, depending on the options, I'm not sure that would give the best results.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 03:00:58 AM by Cacatoes » Logged

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RMF
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« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2010, 10:40:55 AM »

That would be quite awesome. Maybe also highlight servers when friends are playing there (I already see a playerviewer so this would be easily possible to check)?
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2010, 10:57:59 AM »

Yes it's possible to get players lists from servers and display servers according to that. XQF does that pretty well, it has filters (like OAFF has) and you can either enter a part of the name of your friend, some clan tag, or any substring. Just made me think GUID was some way to identify a player too but GUID changes from a server to another so that may not be relevant to use it.
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