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Author Topic: Guidelines for OA official competition  (Read 21401 times)
CFQ
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« on: July 14, 2008, 07:50:24 AM »

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fufinha
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2008, 11:36:26 PM »

How do you feel about pure? pros/cons?

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CFQ
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 08:11:42 AM »

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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 11:55:45 PM »

I thought the title of the topic suggested recommendations for competitions. I mentioned pure as being a possible addition to the stuff you mentioned, not an alternative.

There are alternatives to pure, I only know of the noghost security features,  but they will not be GPL because that would just be silly to have open source anti cheat code.

I just guessed.. hoped there would be nice surprises in version  0.8 Cheesy
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fromhell
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 12:06:06 AM »

Pure is great

don't be having high expectations for 0.8.0 in baseoa though, most of the 0.8.0 stuff is already exposed as 0.7.6!
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
CFQ
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 06:39:11 AM »

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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 07:13:31 AM »

Just something that popped in my head.

Why not Force the player to make a demo of themselfes playing the match.
Then After gameplay, that demo has to be submitted to a judging panel for match validation
So any weird stuff that is going on and that is detectable on a demo,  show??

Drawback is ofcourse the official results of the match is not instant.

I mean, the game can be althered anyway so, you never can detect ALL things that are an unfair advantage.
And there are always people smarter then the system who find the loopholes

You can develop till ya see green but in the end, everything can be hacked althered or whatever its called.
You cant make a game cheatfree ( maybe OA on the wii is cheatfree)
But hey Im just a gamer and dont have the knowlegde of developing like you have.

greatz


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Cacatoes
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 09:07:14 AM »

Reminds me of the DRMs problem.
Prevent technically someone, really ... you can just try to limit it.
Cheating is possible simple because there is a will to cheat, even dumb people can do that if smarter guys offer them solutions.
So, just develop some trivial things so that it's not blatently accessible to the noobest, and community and will to play fairly will do the rest.
Mods (CPMA ... ) act as some kind of standards defining how the game should be play, Vanilla versions do the same.
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 10:39:52 AM »

Mods (CPMA ... ) act as some kind of standards defining how the game should be play, Vanilla versions do the same.

Yes that's what I have been trying to explain to others Cheesy There is a standard config which encourages server admins to adopt the same defaults. I remember playing someone and he kept going on about the server being 'fast rail'. Fast rail is normally 1/2 the reload time of the default (750 instead of 1500). It seemed normal to me so I was disagreeing with him but he kept kicking my ass Cheesy Turned out that the rail reload time was 1450.. he must have noticed this tiny difference and was good enough to take advantage of it. I just press the button as normal, since you get used to the default setting. on clanbase dot com there are often noghost and cpma tournaments, they have rules and standards. I remember trying servers on 1.32 and every server seemed different.. it's ok to try them out but I probably would never revisit any of them.
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Mr. Oho
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 11:50:59 AM »

1 . Allmost aimbot - aimshoot - autoshoot - aided shoot software work on windows only.

Haha nice one Tongue I wanted to argue about this but when i went to my beloved scumbag site i saw they "dont support linux". Pretty funny since Linux has some obvious advantages in the world of PB. Well i guess PB is so useless anyways the guys dont need any advantages...

2 . kernel >= 2.6.22 randomize base memory allocation so it should be very difficult ( impossible ) for a remote external program to attach to client code execution and manipulating data input/output and -fstack-protector add a protection against code that tries to attach to client trough buffer/heap overflow.

Hmm id rather say a bit more difficult. Maybe im missing something but scanning for what you want doesnt sound so hard?

Prevent technically someone, really ... you can just try to limit it.
Cheating is possible simple because there is a will to cheat, even dumb people can do that if smarter guys offer them solutions.

100% agree.

Why not Force the player to make a demo of themselfes playing the match.
Then After gameplay, that demo has to be submitted to a judging panel for match validation
So any weird stuff that is going on and that is detectable on a demo,  show??

Movement/shooting wise yes. But who is going to watch hours of demos to find that suspicious 3 seconds? Sure you can identify the idiot that keeps shooting heads behind a wall but but with any non idiot i fear its going to be alot of work to find anything that could be called proof :S

So the answer is? Snake oil ala PB is better than nothing?? Im not that sure but it would definatly be an instersting project for whoever has the nerves/time. As much as i am with the unbreakable is impossible crowd its sure possible to make breaking a matter of serious sweat, tears and brain damage Wink
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CFQ
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 02:07:21 PM »

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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 02:25:10 PM »

That's why they don't support linux  ... they cannot develop a windows exe+dll like aim<something> , 'cause linux memory management is different and fully protected.

And a remote code injection is impossible 'cause everytime client is loaded , base address is different ( randomly relocatable ) : one chance to do something like this is through a buffer/heap overflow , but if binary is compiled with -fstack-protector flag , the door results closed to their face 

Why? You allocate memory, copy scan routine, mprotect to executable, call, function mprotects normal code segmets to read, you scan for unique string x, mprotect code back to exec, return and recalculate all offsets relative to the one you found? What am i missing?
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CFQ
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 02:48:39 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 03:10:22 PM »

...[Stupid double post.. not sure how it happend but im sorry]...
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Mr. Oho
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 03:17:44 PM »

What am i missing?

How do u attach your code to client in memory execution ?

Hah you got me! Tongue Well at least kind of since i mostly work from inside of the target application. LD_PRELOAD? a custom ui.so (no scanning needed since you get a syscall pointer to calculate from)? Manipulate /dev/mem or /proc stuff (ok im not that sure about that but seems possible to find and overwrite some unimportant function)? Or in a last resort just patch the executable but i agree that would be serve cheating Wink Oh yeah wrappers to any lib Quake loads on its own also sound temptimg Tongue Or how about abuse the debug api?
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fufinha
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2008, 05:13:41 AM »

dunno if this may be of interest, alot of it maybe irrelevant since they use the pb system..


http://clanbase.ggl.com/news.php?nid=294100

http://game-violations.ggl.com/misc.php?action=faq
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fufinha
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2008, 05:33:16 AM »

general config guidelines etc...

http://clanbase.ggl.com/rules.php?lid=6385

I also think if anyone suggests people cheat then they should always have a demo recorded, if this is too much effort then you could say they dont care.. or it only becomes an issue if they lose.

Demos can be funny too
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8UraH2-9B1o
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CFQ
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2008, 08:31:50 AM »

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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2008, 02:39:19 PM »

I take it you havn't used windows in the past decade CFQ?
* RAZ3R goes off to dig up some linux article from 95 to prove how insecure it is.
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2008, 04:49:53 PM »

I think the only way to cheat on Linux using the ioquake3, is to take the source code & implement the cheat code yourself.

If I can remeber there is no way in validating the actual engine executable itself from cheating.
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CFQ
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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 04:55:43 PM »

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« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2008, 08:02:04 PM »

I recently learnt the retardedness of arguing on the internet though I havn't quite learnt the restaint to just not reply at all yet, so first and last response - CFQ: you are a moron. I could bring up valid arguments but it obviosuly wouldn't sink in so I see no point. Hope the time you spent digging up that quote was worth it.

-Fin-
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CFQ
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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2008, 08:31:04 PM »

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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2008, 01:49:18 PM »

CFQ, what are the hostnames of your public servers?
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CFQ
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2008, 01:55:25 PM »

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