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Author Topic: why isn't open arena popular?  (Read 73064 times)
Tymon
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« on: November 27, 2008, 11:23:45 AM »

here are some reasons why I think Open arena is not popular.

-the website

a first impression is always a good one and the first time I stumbled upon your site I said "I don't wanna download as the site looks awful!" but then I was bored and I gave it a try and loved the game Wink. I am not saying we should have a huge(annoying) flash website...I'm saying is embed a youtube vid of the game on the homepage make some better menus make the files section more organized etc... 

-online

not much people are available online but their is really nothing much we can do about this..Sad

any other ideas?




 
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 03:41:53 PM »

The best you can do is to promote the game. Tongue

Also, the game isn't at 1.0, it's at 0.8.1 by now. Tongue
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fromhell
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 06:14:55 AM »

The website is probably the most ugly thing but the old site was over 300kb in load and wasn't kind to the server during release times which often lead to the super ugly placeholder simple links site.

I could rip off some OSWD design and make the 3 column php-ish site I wanted. After doing the Haktoria site I feel I could do a bit better now with some better understanding of CSS
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 06:39:00 AM by leilol » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 10:22:46 AM »

Or... what about including a Portal on the site like MKPortal?
I use it on my ex-band's site, also I know an argentinean Unreal site which uses it, and it's awesome.
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fromhell
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2008, 10:30:42 AM »

CMS systems would be overdoing it. I am not overdoing.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Fitacus
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 03:15:08 PM »

OA won't  become popular bcuz of Q3A and QL. At least it has the same engine and gameplay but Quake is a series of games which are played by players with long-standing gaming experience. Those old stagers stick to their Quake game and wouldn't be that interested in playing a "Q3 Clone" 4 a longer time. In addition QL (free browser version of Q3) is the only serious promotion 4 Quake novices tbh. Nevertheless OA is a great alternative to "feel" the quak'ish pwnage mentality :]
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 03:19:22 PM by Fitacus » Logged

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fufinha
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 04:50:55 PM »

There's always the possibility that OA gets more exposure when QL gets marketed. Ye there will be the 'ol failthfull' quake people but I don't think that accounts for many people these days. Lots of people who play QW hate Q3.. and people who play Q3 hate Q4.

There is no reason why OA can't have much the same functionality as QL - except it would be based on software sitting safely on your drive and in your control. Just not as portable. Given the choice of using the Q3 engine or a 'browser edition' game then throw in 'supported by ads' then I dont think it's much about choice. For people who are working in offices it might be the next best thing.. and become the worst nightmare for the employers Cheesy






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Tymon
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2008, 01:58:52 PM »

I'm good at photoshop so I can make a sig or something promoting OA
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fufinha
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2008, 02:45:58 PM »

I can offer banner space since the site I have in mind offers free hosting. I didn't put up any banner ads because it's not worth it since people who use free hosting are just as likely not want to pay for anything Cheesy Might be an ideal option for OA. Anyway the offer and options are open.. even if it might be more suitable in the future. The site generates alot of traffic. I guess it might attract some complete beginners so might be good time to get some pwning screen shots Cheesy

If theres no interest in this then I still think a few banners and stuff would be very useful.
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Tymon
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 03:15:30 PM »

I can offer banner space since the site I have in mind offers free hosting. I didn't put up any banner ads because it's not worth it since people who use free hosting are just as likely not want to pay for anything Cheesy Might be an ideal option for OA. Anyway the offer and options are open.. even if it might be more suitable in the future. The site generates alot of traffic. I guess it might attract some complete beginners so might be good time to get some pwning screen shots Cheesy

If theres no interest in this then I still think a few banners and stuff would be very useful.

I'l make a banner promoting OA is their a way I can get some pictures of rendered player models?(a.k.a no background)

 
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feLiZ_naVidAD
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 06:27:34 PM »

OA won't  become popular bcuz of Q3A and QL. At least it has the same engine and gameplay but Quake is a series of games which are played by players with long-standing gaming experience. Those old stagers stick to their Quake game and wouldn't be that interested in playing a "Q3 Clone" 4 a longer time. In addition QL (free browser version of Q3) is the only serious promotion 4 Quake novices tbh. Nevertheless OA is a great alternative to "feel" the quak'ish pwnage mentality :]

I think you hit the spot... I still dont know myself why I keep playing... coz base maps are really awful, and I have q3... but I can not join the servers smootly in q3... always some problem. There are q3 map available for oa, but no server play them... or they are always empty...

The only think that oa can do is to join the ubuntu movement as one of the star games to gain players... but the packages are never updated in the repository... (and i repeat it) the maps are quite awful... so...

and fromhell is not into making the game popular anyway... he wants to do it his way... Ive read him several times saying so... ... so there you have the results...

Anyway, even if the map thing works out in 1.0 and nice servers become available.... I think that quake is old... as ficatus said... its only chance is the new raising ubuntu community and make things nice and easy for them...

And this is only if some1 is interested in making it happened

A nice website has nothing to do with it (from my pov) a few get carried away with a fancy web, but... I like to think that those are the least
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 07:30:23 PM by feLiZ_naVidAD » Logged

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feLiZ_naVidAD
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 08:08:51 PM »

btw, i didnt know about QL (http://www.quakelive.com/)

It looks awesome!!!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 08:43:05 PM by feLiZ_naVidAD » Logged

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fufinha
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 08:19:24 PM »

I usually play on the first release of q3 simply because theres always loads of people there and you can connect to nearly all servers without a problem. I still play oa and it's something different especially having a change of maps. I've never found 1.32 much of an option as you only have so much patience trying to connect to servers and get some mismatch error, especially when servers dont allow dl.

That problem doesnt exist on 1.16 because there is no download function and people usually play noghost and nemesis (which have alot of the stuff popular mods have).

I have never played cpma because I have never managed to download all the map paks so things like that just don't do any good when you can't just download on demand. The mod becomes like another game it seems and too much of that happened with 1.32.

I think compatibility is important to keep ppl returning and be able to simply connect to servers without issues. Most servers I connect to have been up for maybe 5 years or more and I guess that's because people know what they are getting. The configs usually never change either.

I think the point about QL will probably affect q3 more than OA. One thing good about QL you wont get all the compatibility issues and 200 different cvars for each mod like many servers on 1.32 turned out like. If I could connect to servers on 1.32 and download at high speed knowing I can connect to 99% of the server in the browser without problems then I might be there instead of oa. I would still go back to 1.16 because I like TDM. So OA didnt make me stop playing 1.16 and vice versa. I guess it's probably the same for other people who may play cpma, defrag, QL etc. If I were to choose one then I'd probably just get bored and not play at all. :S
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feLiZ_naVidAD
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2008, 09:25:39 PM »

hahaah I come from 1.16 community too... it was a really nice community with a really nice set ups Smiley If you add the all-seing eye as a server finder you got it all Smiley
You can dl just the demo and play in the servers. It was fast, easy and nice Wink

I had 1.32 switched to 1.16 to play in those servers. I had the full for all the models and maps... and sometimes i liked to swtich to 1.32 to play rocket arena 3 Smiley

I have to try to install it back some how to join those servers again under linux Wink

and a pd question: Do u know why is not a single nice noghost sever in oa like "Tenacius D" or "fasthernet + blah= trouble"? I tried to set up one the other day but i guess my connection is not good enuf for that
pd2: this is just to try the glow thing
pd3: this is just to try the shadow thing
pd4: QL seems to me a nice try to gain all those lose players spread out all the servers/versions/forks. I cant wait. ID knows the community... i dont know why it didnt move before...
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fufinha
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2008, 09:56:45 PM »

If you get the linux binary (i think it's at the nemesis site) and then try run it with pak0 - pak2 in baseq3 then it might work. pak0 is version 1.11 and 1 and 2 is the update to 1.16n. ASE is no longer being supported and you cant connect to the master servers. Sad  As an alternative you can try qtracker and you can probably get listings for q3 and oa. Smiley (oops.. if your using linux then qtracker probably wont be any use.. but neither will ASE I guess Smiley )
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 09:58:25 PM by missbehaving » Logged
Speaker
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2008, 03:42:33 AM »

feLiZ_naVidAD wrote:

Quote
I think you hit the spot... I still dont know myself why I keep playing... coz base maps are really awful, and I have q3... but I can not join the servers smootly in q3... always some problem. There are q3 map available for oa, but no server play them... or they are always empty...

You are absolutely right. Those maps (except the ported ID maps and one or two others done by professionals) really suck. The GPL licensing of OA does not allow incorporation of most custom made maps into the releases. However, there are lots of good maps that can be run under OA. Here is my list of tested maps:

chitourney1
ik3dm2
lun3dm2
lun3dm3
lun3dm4
nodm16
plduel2
psyco3dm3
pukka3dm1
hub3_aeroq3
q3_bloodflowers  *
q3_curse2  *
q3_elkdm2 *         
q3_ultrav *
q3arc1

AFAIK these maps are all available for download at LvL. Maybe server admins are not aware that such maps exist (or are too lazy to search for them and playtest). We could send them this information. The list of compatible maps could even be included in the OA releases. I am sure that this would not be a violation of the sacred GPL ;-) If you think that this idea has some merit, I am willing to playtest a bunch of maps (I have collected quite a few) to see which ones are compatible. The list shown above is just my preference for my server (including a shameless plug about my own maps marked by asterisks :-)
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Ferk
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2008, 04:55:29 AM »

There is no reason why OA can't have much the same functionality as QL - except it would be based on software sitting safely on your drive and in your control. Just not as portable. Given the choice of using the Q3 engine or a 'browser edition' game then throw in 'supported by ads' then I dont think it's much about choice. For people who are working in offices it might be the next best thing.. and become the worst nightmare for the employers Cheesy

In fact I think OA is waaaay better than QL already.
QL is not really that portable.... you have to install some kind of plugin to use it, and this plugin is only available for Microsoft Windows (currently) and only running for some specific browsers.
Also, QL gamming is far more limited than OpenArena... in QL there's no MODS and there wont be... there are less gameplay options and less character models to choose from, no user-made models, no user made maps (on the other hand, when OA has all the Q3 textures replaced it will have TONS of compatible maps to play) and QL also has commercial limitations like ads and that kind of stuff (for now it's not intrusive, but we will see later..)

Not to mention that OA is 100% libre (freedom) software... and it can be improved and extended to the infinity by anyone. The more popular AO is the more contributors it will have and the faster it will improve. People should realize this.. we should advertise OA and talk about it to our friends... it's a really good game with lots of potential. Moreover, since it's content-based (and not so much about coding) the OA content will likely be able to be used in any future engine that is developed (it's not limited to Quake), being able to evolve using newer engines and get better and better Wink
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 05:08:42 AM by Ferk » Logged

sorry for my english
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2008, 06:00:23 AM »

That's the point. Wink
It's easy to be a Q3Boy/QLBoy and say "OA sucks, go QL/Q3!!!", but helping out to try to make it better, or at least helping developers/mappers/modellers/etc saying what's wrong and what changes/fixes should be made in the game... that's another story.
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fufinha
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2008, 06:21:57 AM »

Very true but are they really comparable? Q3's success was arguably the result of id making the source available and coders developing mods who were not associated with id. Most of these people have moved on to other things, most popular and succesful mods date back to 2002.

Fitacus highlighted support of players who follow the Quake series but on the other hand OA will also have the support of this GPL thing. I think there's pros/cons in each and not necessarily a good or a bad thing.

You are right about the portability thing. People don't realise how much downloading time for QL will be consumed if they don't have an uber fast connection. Kind of loses it's identity as a brower game if it goes one way and loses it's marketing appeal for the 'pros' and serious gamers (which will be valuable at attracting new blood) if it goes the other.

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Fitacus
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2008, 09:38:12 AM »

That's the point. Wink
It's easy to be a Q3Boy/QLBoy and say "OA sucks, go QL/Q3!!!", but helping out to try to make it better, or at least helping developers/mappers/modellers/etc saying what's wrong and what changes/fixes should be made in the game... that's another story.

Nope it's much harder to become the bestest in Q3 than bothering fromhell Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2008, 10:08:28 AM »

That's the point. Wink
It's easy to be a Q3Boy/QLBoy and say "OA sucks, go QL/Q3!!!", but helping out to try to make it better, or at least helping developers/mappers/modellers/etc saying what's wrong and what changes/fixes should be made in the game... that's another story.

Nope it's much harder to become the bestest in Q3 than bothering fromhell Wink
I've never bothered fromhell TTBOMK. Tongue
(And if I've done... I don't remember. :/)

I mean, AFAIK every map/model/texture included in OA (or, at least, GPLed) can be modified to be improved, not only by his/her original author, but by every user. And I'm not talking about sending PMs, (I know the issue fromhell has with them) but since she isn't the only one in the OA team, leaving suggestions at the forum itself on X problem, for example, issue in X map, leaving it in map's topic (or if it doesn't exists, create a new topic Tongue) or trying to fix [him/her]self. That way, he/she can help to improve the project. Obviously, there are some things that can't be changed because of the direction the project has.

In what respects to me, I always ask for comments, suggestions, on what I do. I'm almost open on it and accept almost every suggestion, despite my lack of skill on mapping and my null skill on modelling/texturizing.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 03:18:13 PM by Armageddon_Man » Logged


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RudyRailer
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 02:58:08 PM »

do new versions get beta-tested by players aswell or what?
seems every new version gets worse and never finished,.. oh no it will get fixed in the new new version? :|
or make every option ,..like sounds and so on optional in a sort of menu.
Is the ingame browser ever get improved?,...like show what players (playernames) are on the servers?
Now it shows ,..(only humans) (Show full)(show empty)(show privat) so pointless it seems,...just (show playernames and all the rest can go away. (keep show full/show empty) imo

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jessicaRA
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2008, 01:15:41 AM »

i think one big reason may be one already mentioned because it is in fact a clone and the majority of quake users will continue to be quake users without a lot of new users and cpma became a sort of competition standard..  if oa had a cpma like mod which had improvements over cpma, warsow and painkiller, came with it already in the openarena dir it may get more attention that way but..  this isn't the intention of openarena?  i guess i'll have to get un lazy and work on a mod around 1.0.1 time lol.  i think i prefer the style of oa over quake though, cats etc over people with visors and television like heads.
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zuma
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2008, 03:57:36 AM »

Yes. OA acclaimed the status as a game for newbies, whereas q3 with all those PRO-mods is loved by competitive gamers. I wish OA would add some features which would strenghten its PRO level, but on the other hand this would be a contradiction (according to fromhell) as all those noobies wouldnt know all the fancy cvars which would be useful in gaming- like hud, bobup and damagekick (which i hope will be applied). Look at warsow- it has like 4 player models, but its more popular than OA.
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fufinha
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2008, 06:01:22 AM »

and cpma became a sort of competition standard..  if oa had a cpma like mod =


There are too many instant PRO-'s and kids will grow up a worse person thinking they are bigger and better than everyone else. If theres going to be a PRO- version of openarena then please have its own protocol (that normal people dont even get to know about it) and deny them access to the places where normal people go.
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